28
Aug
10

#221 – “Cleef and Effect”



Bang.

In retrospect, I guess everyone suspected Chekov of being the main Defias supplier of firearms anyway.

Edit: Re-rendered one of the panes as the visual didn’t quite focus test as effective enough. It should be somewhat more obvious now.

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51 Responses to “#221 – “Cleef and Effect””


  1. 1 Fyrina
    August 28, 2010 at 23:41

    Damn your cliffhangers! Now I have to wait for thursday or even next sunday to…! >:(

  2. 2 Coragon
    August 29, 2010 at 00:14

    Knew he was gonna use that thing sooner or later. What a pee-shooter!

    Hani’s gonna shrug that one off.

    Right?

    RIGHT?!

  3. 3 wowplayer
    August 29, 2010 at 00:34

    then she cuts his head off

  4. 4 Eduvudd
    August 29, 2010 at 01:58

    Both disarmed, Hani is shot, such an intense moment, cant wait to see how it turna out

  5. 5 DarkSpade
    August 29, 2010 at 03:27

    You’ve made Van Cleef so cool I’m not even sure who to root for anymore. 0.o

    • 6 Timber Wolf
      August 29, 2010 at 07:46

      agreed. VC has been elevated to OMFG COOL, but he just shot one of the baddest Night Elf Warriors ever to be kicked out of the Sentinels. I’m at a loss for words.

  6. 7 Timber Wolf
    August 29, 2010 at 07:44

    OW Damn! Where’s a priest? Areen! We need a heal!!

  7. 8 LolDrood
    August 29, 2010 at 09:56

    Woooo, now we get to see how healing/heal spells work in the BtT side-verse! :D

    More immediately, we’re going to get to see how well she fights with one arm. Sure looks like he got her right in the shoulder joint. Ow.
    In reality, she probably just lost her arm, but even I would agree that would hinder the narrative some.

    Now to frantically click the refresh button every few hours for the 4-5 days! :D

    • 9 Aux-Ash
      August 29, 2010 at 10:23

      Luckily for Hani, the shoulder is one of the “better” places to be shot in. Unless the bullet went through the bone, chances are she’ll be back in one piece if she gets it seen to soon.

      I’m also interested to see how the healing will be done though. Will we a spell solving it on the spot or will we see a fade to black and Hani waking up in a bed a few days later, hot with fever but the shoulder on the way to recovery.

  8. 10 Ripwarrior
    August 29, 2010 at 10:15

    to be honest I think Hani needs some rescue, you might be badass, but to be shot at such a point blank…..it’s gonna be hard, even for Hani here…I don’t think she’ll be able to kick his ass, if she does then she got some insane self controll. Also guessing she’s never been shot before, next one is going to be interesting

  9. 11 Frostsaben
    August 29, 2010 at 11:45

    Oh no! Hani’s been shot! I do hope however that van Cleef escapes, this was all just a big misunderstanding.

  10. 12 Skyll K. Chagorantis
    August 29, 2010 at 12:11

    I must say these last few weeks in the Cove with Van Cleef really made up for much of the rather slow paced narrative in the rest of the dungeon. You did quite hit your stride here, and you’ve got a good feel for making the characters move in a realistic way.

    And I love “Her Light outshines the Stars”!

    Good work, keep it up!

    • 13 Ilyara
      August 29, 2010 at 13:51

      It seems to me that the High Priestess and Elune (embodied by the Moon) occupy a similar equivalency in Hani’s spirituality, which may say something about her moon gazing, those odd dreams, and her problematic attitude to Tyrande.

  11. 14 Morbium
    August 29, 2010 at 12:36

    Hani being shot reminds me of an discussion around fire-arms, and the damage they do in RP.

    Looking at the situation here, Hani’s in trouble.

    First of all, the bullet would’ve gone deep. Due to the point blank reach.

    Secondly, there’s going to be shrapnel from that blast being so close. And the bullet will likelly have shattered. Before she can be healed up by magic or otherwise, it should all be removed first, lest she’s stuck with a rusting piece of metal inside her shoulder. Which would very likelly end up killing her.

    Thirdly, when hit by a bullet or arrow, even if the hit wasnt deep or life-threathening. The muscles just lock up. Even if the pain doesnt force her to faint, she wont be able to fight here anymore.

    All of this would mean Hani’s in trouble. And requires the rest of the party to show up and be all heroic.

    Or the situation could be solved movie-style, and she’s just denied the use of her arm as she continues fighting.

    • 15 Nhani
      August 29, 2010 at 13:01

      To be honest, firearms and the damage they cause in RP is rarely – if ever – about how damaging firearms are or what the results from being shot should be and instead are nearly always about how much, and how far, you should be allowed to empower a character through simply giving them a gun.

      Effectively, far too often firearms in RP simply devolve into free “I-win” devices that people use to demand other characters to pay attention to, or respect, theirs without any effort on their part. It essentially becomes a prop that only has the purpose of attempting to establish dominance without actually putting any effort in.

      I’ve seen a fair bit of gun usage in RP, and the only time it’s not been a case of the above has been when it’s been part of a military event of some sort or another with two sides blasting away at random.

      • 16 Coragon
        August 29, 2010 at 13:19

        Guns can be awesome in RP fights, but as you say, the problem is they’re often used as “I win!”-tools, mostly from people that just…want to win, poweremoters.. Or from people that are tired of being attacked and use the guns as a “/shoo”-tool to prevent yet another lengthy rp-fight.

        However, I’ve had a few encounters with people using guns in a more fun and realistic way, where their aim is really inaccurate(wow firearms, especielly pistols, are usually rather inaccurate at medium to long ranges unless you go for special rifles adapted for that distance). The key is realizing that a gun is a very powerful tool and keeping this in mind for the opponent you’re roleplaying with, and thus evening things out by saying that the aim is inaccurate, it takes ages to load or it malfunctions. Saying that its a fully automatic accurate assault rifle causes…problems.

        Coragon uses guns alot, and he has a flintlock-model pistol with him nearly always when he’s moving around on Stormwinds streets. He’s been using guns as much as swords for the last 5 years. :p
        That might be worthy to note if you ever toss Horace Cravenrest in a fight.

        And I try to use my firearms with moderation, in the rare occassion that I do use them. Coragon isnt attacked alot these days.

        And then there’s the firearm-heavy armor debate! Oh ye gods, I could go on for hours, the amount of time I’ve debated on this particular topic, but I fear I’ll derail the comments from this cliffhanger comic episode. :p

        • 17 Nhani
          August 29, 2010 at 14:08

          Stormwind is Stormwind, of course, and I find it really varies on situation and context. I don’t mind their prop usage for self defense that much, since by that time it was someone else who initiated that particular type of RP and that particular type of outcome and you’re just responding in kind. I’ve used melee weapons or a near-infinite supply of Elune Stones in a similar fashion myself.

          The problem is when the one with the gun is the aggressor, because you can basically only deal with it two ways – either you establish the threat first and use the gun as an extension of that, or you use the gun to establish the threat.

          Vast majority use the latter, either by pulling a gun on or just randomly shooting someone to establish themselves without effort, and generally in such a way that you just know they wouldn’t accept it if roles were reversed.

          At the end of the day, as far as I see it, a character is only as threatening – and only as capable – as you manage to make people believe they are. A weapon prop has a much more imminent danger in the hands of a character that’s been well presented as a clear and present danger than in the hands of someone that hasn’t.

    • 18 Ilyara
      August 29, 2010 at 13:48

      The amount of Blood implies to me that the bullet has gone straight through the muscle, perhaps breaking/deflecting off bone, and exited. If it’s lead shot, which it probably is, then it’s not that likely to have shattered. It looks, and probably is excruciatingly painful, but Hani is very large and thinking about her as more like a big cat, I can see her staying in the fight on adrenaline alone. I think the arm has to be out of commission ofc, but we shouldn’t get too bogged down in the technicalities :)

      Ultimately it serves a dramatic purpose and whether she needs to be rescued, or carries on with the fight, I am sure it will remain compelling on a character level :)

  12. 19 saila AKS Wester
    August 29, 2010 at 13:10

    well an the gun is next to an one shot hit = win but it takes ages to reload and its not the best on longer range and rifle is not the best at point blank.
    and on the armor penetration I have no ide how tick armor you need to stop an bullet.

  13. 20 Ripwarrior
    August 29, 2010 at 13:47

    I’d still say Hani is in trouble, from the looks it’s a hit in the shoulder, she might still be able to fight, but Van Cleef got the upper hand, she’s wearing leather armor, it might have worked if he had been at a longer distance( I’ll just say right now I don’t know ANYTHING about how guns work, these are just my thoughts:p) but this close, and a direct hit, from the looks of it…

    I’m excited about the next pages, but I don’t see how Hani is gonna pull this one off alone

    • 21 Ilyara
      August 29, 2010 at 14:17

      What Would Conan Do? ;D

    • 22 Zednotzee
      August 29, 2010 at 22:09

      Ok, let me explain a bit about firearms. At that range, not only will Hani be injured from the bullet itself, but is also likely to suffer from powder burns. Leather armour would be useless against a gun. In fact, it would be worse than useless, as the bullet (should be called a ball actually, as flintlocks fired lead balls. The bullet shape appeared later) would be more than likely to carry a piece of it into the wound, which if left in there would rotten and cause gangrene. However, it looks like it passed through her shoulder. If this is the case, then she’s in REAL trouble,as exit wounds are considerably larger than entry wounds. The gun would appear to be a pretty average size for such weapons which means it’s going to be at least .45 calibre, and is more likely to .50 calibre – yes, really, they were that big! This means that the exit wound (allowing for a slight flattening of the ball during it’s passage through her shoulder) would be the diameter of saucer. This means her arm is pretty much gone – hanging by a thread maybe, but pretty much done for. If the shock doesn’t kill her,the massive blood loss would in quite a short time. She most certainly would NOT carry on the fight. This is of course in the real world, not in the WOW or BTT universe. But it would be nice to see a bit of healing done as there IS a druid and a pala standing nearby.

      • 23 Ilyara
        August 30, 2010 at 02:39

        The exit wound size depends on what the bullet hit on the way through and the amount of deflection afaik: it’s taken a chunk out of her but not necessarily as big as a saucer.

        • 24 Zednotzee
          August 30, 2010 at 10:12

          Maybe, but I wasd going on eye-witness accounts. so I think I’ll stick with what I said. Remember these are not modern nickle-coated bullets, and are made purely of soft lead.

          • 25 Ilyara
            August 30, 2010 at 14:13

            You can get exit wounds that big for sure, but it’s usually when there are lots of bone fragments: chest and skull wounds especially :)

            • September 2, 2010 at 03:37

              Something y’all are neglecting to consider is that VC’s pistol is — at BEST — a black powder muzzle loader. That means its muzzle velocity is probably very low. Combine that with a round ball, and odds are that there wouldn’t be much deformation unless bone was struck, and no hydrostatic shot. So odds are that Hani’s been run through, more or less.

  14. 27 gryffyn
    August 29, 2010 at 16:15

    I don’t know. Take a good look at the angle of the pistol. Looks a grazing hit is in store, in which case VanCleef has just pissed her off and that would be a very very bad thing for him. You don;t want her to be angry. You won’t like her when she is angry. Does she turn green?

  15. 28 Iscarti
    August 29, 2010 at 16:48

    The blood was red on this page but purple when the shredder cut her. Is that intended? Great job though, always makes me look foward to Thursdays and Sundays.

    • 29 Nhani
      August 29, 2010 at 16:56

      It actually is purple; the problem is.. if you take purple and light it with a bright yellow or orange-ish light.. the red component ends up overemphasized compared to the blue one, and the result is far more red than purple.

      It’s essentially a lighting artifact.

  16. 30 TC
    August 29, 2010 at 19:14

    very impressed with this fight, you have done well <3 now all is left for Van Cleef to make an heroic escape while Nanis friends rush to her aid :p.. right?… plueeaassee

  17. August 29, 2010 at 21:57

    Well, we all saw it coming….but by god esteemed hostess you made it awesome!

  18. 32 Iasion
    August 30, 2010 at 05:30

    Well, both are disarmed. Hani has a damaged shoulder, but still maintains the reach advantage… someone tell Te’len to bust out the heals! <,<

  19. August 30, 2010 at 12:42

    I suggest grabbing his head and squash it like a grapefruit.

  20. 34 Agiman
    August 30, 2010 at 13:00

    Time to throw gnomes.. Shield first!

  21. 35 Agiman
    August 30, 2010 at 13:13

    Time for gnome throwing.. Shield first!

  22. 37 Fokker
    August 30, 2010 at 13:47

    Well, I might just have a problem with the third panel. The way VC kicked her, especially after what happened in panel 2 is quite off. I think he should’ve done it using right leg instead. Otherwise, the kick wouldn’t be very powerful, and performing it would take a while. She could’ve grabbed his leg and mess him up.

    • 38 Nhani
      August 30, 2010 at 14:04

      Actually, I disagree – I can’t see him kicking straight up, so any kick (like the one he does now) happens sideways; if he were to kick with his right leg.. he’d have to land on it, turn around 180 degrees to put that first and then kick, as opposed to the present situation where he can land and then kick straight out the side with his left directly after finding his balance.

      That said, I think the angle doesn’t really make it apparent.

  23. 40 canecorpus
    August 31, 2010 at 20:08

    I am glad to see someone not be a complete pushover for Hani. Not only for the sake of humility, but also in regards to a hero only being as good as the villain.

  24. 41 Kimico
    September 1, 2010 at 09:06

    I think I discovered this comic at the wrong time… Oh well!

    Poor Hani! Her anger is making her a bit reckless. She’s keeps missing and hits the ship instead. He’s purposefully making her frustrated to get the better of her. I think this is why Tyrande is disappointed with her and Hani has to learn to control herself before they meet again… I think she’s shown some self control with the goblins so maybe this experience is training her.

  25. 43 Dovius
    September 1, 2010 at 10:22

    Well, looks like Hani just got DISARMED *Pa-Dum-TISH*

  26. 45 Landusk
    September 1, 2010 at 21:03

    guns are not that bad! I ues a gun and I play a orc! :P any way nice way to show how good old vancleaf is I going to miss that old rouge in cata but any way keep up the good work!

    Mmmmmm I wonder when she get to meet horde soon *thinking of a badass orc that will fight footmail soon* yeah…. that be epic :P

  27. 48 Thepicsaregood
    September 3, 2010 at 12:06

    Go Van cleef!

  28. 49 mogh
    September 4, 2010 at 13:31

    This comic made me imagine VC convincing Hani to join his team. Taking as much of VC’s time to be put down as it seems it is for Hani has got to be impressing VC — Hani would quickly be ranked above the vast majority of VC’s lapdogs.

  29. 50 TidalSnake
    February 4, 2011 at 01:38

    I know it’s quite late for this, but I found a mistake in this page. The night elves’ blood is actualy purple. The Stormrage novel confirms that.

    • 51 Nhani
      February 4, 2011 at 01:52

      It actually is purple. Thing is however that on the RGB scale, purple consists of the colours Blue and Red, and if you subject that to a Yellow/Orange-y light (consisting of Red and Green), then the only shared colour component will be Red.

      If you look closely you can actually see that the blood has a slight purple-ish tint to it rather than being a pure red. That said, the light cast by the gun discharge is also very brightly yellow, which underrepresents the blue aspect.


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